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Does violence stem from video games

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42 comments, last by GameDev.net 6 years, 4 months ago
1 hour ago, frob said:

I'd put the arbitrary line at the point where it begins to interfere with 'normal life' or disrupt someone from doing the activities they wish, although that too is arbitrary.

That's pretty much the psychology definition. If it's harming you  it's a disorder. If you can't identify any harm then you're just eccentric :D

 

The scary trend with modern gaming isn't violence, it's gambling. 

We've had a generation grow up playing violent games now and no link has been proven.

However, mobile games have spiralled into the free-to-play-but-please-keep-paying model, where the aim is to dig hooks into a small percentage of your users and hypnotise them into paying for the game over and over again. From a purely business perspective, it's a very good thing if you can get players to become addicted... What's worse is that these companies are better at that goal than ever. The gambling industry now has decades of experience in making addictive video games, and those skills are directly transferrable to our industry (e.g. video slot machines are being made with Unity)... And that's scary as hell. Worse still, we've now got unprecedented access to data on player behaviours -- what used to require an expensive focus test run by behavioural experts can now be achieved by an off-the-shelf analytics service. Scientific experiments are routinely conducted on players, grouped randomly into trial and control groups without their knowledge, to test whether a game tweak will increase spending or addiction. 

And it's not just mobile gaming either, all this monry-making knowledge and practice is being appropriated by every part of the industry, and meanwhile traditional betting agencies are moving into e-sports. You've got kids who start out betting in-game tradable items on the outcomes of e-sports matches, who then graduate to real money (often with their parent's credit card).

 

Large scale exposure to violence is such a 90's fear. Large scale exposure to addictive gambling is the new concern ;)

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I agree with others who question the survey, I tried to answer it and found the questions ambiguous and/or leading. In my case, I abandoned the survey part way through due to these issues. Even if this were fixed, if the majority of the survey respondents are people who have an active interest in game development, that will likely skew the results (unless your aim is to measure beliefs in the game development community specifically).

In my personal opinion it seems unlikely that playing violent computer games at an inappropriately young age is a common cause of real world violence. Sadly there will always be a few outliers, and the sheer novelty of it will attract undue media attention and make it seem to the causal observer that there is a much bigger "problem". While I'm thankfully sheltered from day to day experiences of violence, the little that I have seen anecdotally I would correlated with poverty, lack of education and opportunity and I would speculate that there are cyclical aspects where the individuals were raised in difficult circumstances (e.g. abusive parents).

I find it curious that there is such a focus by some on computer games in connection with real world violence. One possibility is that it serves as a distraction that diverts attention away from the more fundamental issues that would need to be addressed to reduce violence, measures that might be unpalatable to people in power (wealth inequality, etc). Another is that the people who drive these conversations are earnest but have (IMO) "simpler" view of the world, driven by emotionally vibrant anecdotes rather than statistics and seeing direct cause and effect where other people might see co-incidence or mild correlation. Yet another might be that these people object to the existence of the violent computer games and don't mind exploiting tragic circumstances to demonise them in order to regulate and/or censor the games.

There are really a lot of media out there which definitily makes people more violent and aggressive - this includes music, movies and games and books as well. Even the newspaper can make people violent and agressive.

Also there a lot of games or movies which are really violent but dont need it for telling the story. As a matter of fact, some media makes their story unbeliebable when they overuse violence a lot.

Killing robots or aliens or doing unrealistic stuff is just fine when you mostly dont get the idea about reality. But seeing in a military shooter how the bullet shoots through a humans head with a ton of blood and brain splattering around, seeing all the details or watching humans or animals gets tortured badly: Such things are not needed and will eventually make people really angry, aggressive or violent and some may just go out and do that stuff for real.

There are really rare cases when extreme violence is required to make it more believable.

I think the world would be a much better place, when the violence is used more wisely or be near no-present at all.

5 hours ago, Finalspace said:

There are really a lot of media out there which definitily makes people more violent and aggressive - this includes music, movies and games and books as well. Even the newspaper can make people violent and agressive.

[citation needed]

All of the previous discussion has pointed out that no studies have shown that media causes violent behavior.  If you're going to say the exact opposite, you're best to back it up with something. 

5 hours ago, Finalspace said:

Such things are not needed and will eventually make people really angry, aggressive or violent and some may just go out and do that stuff for real.

This is a pretty serious claim though, and would have pretty important implications if it were the case.

This whole discussion and I think OP just wanted to finish some homework that their teacher assigned them.

I don't think media makes people more violent, but I'm sure it normalizes violence. This is for any media.

" rel="external">This video from Pop Culture Detective shows the use of media (movies) as a medium to (intentionally) normalize the view of war and, by consequence, making army recruitment something more attractive than what actually is. Not exactly the same thing as individual violence, and intentional instead of accidental, but the same principle.

2 hours ago, trjh2k2 said:

[citation needed]

All of the previous discussion has pointed out that no studies have shown that media causes violent behavior.  If you're going to say the exact opposite, you're best to back it up with something. 

This is a pretty serious claim though, and would have pretty important implications if it were the case.

Causing is the wrong word, its not causing but rather amplification. People with bad tendencies (No friends, no job, no purpose in life, serious depression, bad parents, you name it etc.) gets violent amplificated more than others. So i cannot see that violent media has no effect at all. As a matter of fact, it will have effects when coupled with other stuff.

One example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winnenden_school_shooting

Violent media in that case may not be the cause, but it was definitily a amplification added to others.

But @ferreiradaselva is right, the OP gots his survey and got a lot of answers, so we should close that.

The reason why i posted in the first place was i got the impression from all the posts here that violence in games makes no difference from non-violent games at all - which is not true. It makes a difference.

^ School shootings being attributed to gaming or movies has always been a stretch.  People want to place blame on whatever they can in events like those, so lots of finger-pointing happens without any real way to prove that the media had an amplifying effects on their behavior.  Again, you can't just say "yeah those things totally amplified the violence" without backing that up with something.  Just the fact that the events coincided is not enough to say they had an impact on the other.  They could share a root cause maybe, but again, it would need to be properly investigated.

I think that's mostly confirmation bias.

Someone does something horrific. People want to see what is different about them, what triggered the horrific behavior. They look at a long list of things, and focus on the things that they personally think are abnormal or problematic.  When they find the things they think are atypical, since the person who committed the horrific actions also participated in that thing perceived as bad, the person mentally affirms that the two are linked.

The common motivations I see for most of the mass shootings tend to be a long series of abuses and harassment.  The link above to Winnenden lists that as among the major motives:  Bullying, personal stress, depression.  That short list is common to many mass shootings.  Abuses at the workplace that are not addressed by management, abuses by classmates that are not addressed by administrators, abuses by people who are outside their group that are not addressed through proper channels.  Their tormentors tend to be the preferred targets.  It certainly is not all mass shootings, there are other motives for some, but it is a common motive.  

 

The links to studies showing people don't feel violent after playing violent games were on the last page. People generally feel competitive feelings, the same as they would after any other competitive match, from an intense football game, an intense tennis game, to an intense chess match. All tend to carry on feelings of victory or of defeat, not of violence.

Many people are surprised to learn violent crime rates have been going down for twenty five years.  Looking at a per-capita basis, 2016 continued the downward trend being the lowest year on the trend line that has been dropping since 1991. 2014 was 2946, 2015 was 2885, 2016 was 2847.  

Violent games have become more and more common since the early 1990s, and violent crime among people who play games (nearly everybody) has been on a steady downward trend since the same timeline. There are far too many variables to put it on any one thing, but that trend line has a near-perfect correlation to the availability of violent games. 

If there were a positive correlation then there should have been an increase on violence as violent games became widespread, with notable bumps in violent crime after violent games were released.  Fine-grained studies show instead there tend to be small dips in crime after major games are released, although even those are hard to show anything beyond correlation which could be due to many factors.

So getting back, YES games will influence a person's behavior.  But NO, violent games will not cause or induce violent behavior or violent crime, as shown by several studies and by crime statistics.   

 

 

Lemme fix just one phrase:

Someone white does something horrific. People want to see what is different about them, what triggered the horrific behavior.

5 hours ago, Finalspace said:

One example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winnenden_school_shooting

Violent media in that case may not be the cause, but it was definitily a amplification added to others.

Not definitely. Speculatively.

You could also speculate that he was a violent person and used airsoft and counter-strike as a coping strategy to deal with his impulses, and that they've helped to avoid similar incidents elsewhere. But that's just speculation...

Be careful confusing your intuition with certainty.

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