I'm surprised this post is 10 comments in and no one mentioned the Witcher series yet. The adult content in the Witcher fits perfectly the story and the lore. The entire series is a prime example of how to do great adult content in a story driven game.
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Input on Adult Content
11 hours ago, Bakkerbaard said:I will say however, is that in bookform it is possible to include graphic sex, because of the added benefit of telling the reader what's going on in someone's head or giving details that matter, beyond "her body shivered with his touch", making it more relevant to the story you are telling.
I think this is key.
If you're going for telling a good story, the rule is "show don't tell" -- which means in a visual medium like a video game, the explicit bits take place offscreen and you just see the reactions and results. A little bit of titillation never hurts and can set the scene to advance the story, but a graphic depiction of adult acts is just porn and ruins the story (just as any other tell instead of show would).
On the other hand, I always add unpixelate patches to The Sims because the not-telling there is overboard. People are all naked under their clothes, adding pixellation just titillates where it's unnecessary to advance the story.
Remember the other golden rule: always leave them wanting more. If people achieve the (cognitive) satisfaction of a visceral reward in the middle of a game, why continue with the playthrough? Tease them. Make them want the ending, but hold off on it for as long as you can. Make them say your name.
20 hours ago, Bakkerbaard said:Thus far the story has not allowed for such scenes and I've just been toying with adult ideas as mere side-quests, but I'm far, far from done and deeper "interpersonal relations" could still crop up.
Well, I think the word "allowed" shows the problem you will face with what you are trying to achieve.
Adult content that shoved into a story/movie/game because you want adult content in it will feel like porn. Like something tacked on to be edgy, to use the power of "sex sells", or to add value to a product you perceive as lacking in it.
If that is what you want... hey, porn games/hentai games/adult themed games/whater-you-want-to-call-it are quite popular on Steam as I hear, and have a small-ish, but pretty dedicated niche of fans as far as I could tell, so go on. Just make sure you actually serve the niche well, if that is your intention. Yes, that probably means shoving adult content in REGARDLESS if the story allows for it or not (hence impractical, stupid looking skimpy outfits and such)
If you want to add adult content to a game without it feeling like porn. Well, I guess instead of trying too hard to get your adult content in SOMEWHERE, maybe just write the story and see if it feels right organically at some point in the story. This way, chances are good it feels like more than just porn.
Just beware the many, many pitfalls nowadays that come with the sex-negative outlook of many puritans on the left and the right, and the outrage culture that tries to find stereotypes and faults in everything. If you feel adult content is worth the pitfalls, maybe make sure you have a diverse test group you can reference to test read/watch/play your adult content before you let it lose on the wider audience just to catch some of the more obvious triggers for the puritans and outrage warriors... unless you don't care and simply can weather the storm. Its not like a little bit of outrage haven't helped sell some controversial games in the past 
6 hours ago, slayemin said:The other consideration I'm thinking is that my players may also be female, so if that's the case, then I need to have an equivalent male lust demon to entice the female player into being seduced/tempted.
Have you considered sexualities other than heterosexuality?
4 hours ago, Lactose said:Have you considered sexualities other than heterosexuality?
For brief moments, but the larger concern is about how supporting every orientation and queer gender would inflate scope and production costs. I think it might turn into too much work.
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Before I go into the actual reply, I would like to thank you, readers, for playing along in the fantasy that this game will go out into the world someday. The chances of that are very slim in reality, but it helps my process to sometimes think of others seeing it.
Anyway...
14 hours ago, slayemin said:Would they be willing to touch a game which helps people discover and explore their inner darknesses, including the vices of sex, even if it informs the human experience and presents a new life perspective for players?
I just took a guy's head off with a heavy explosive turret and then backed my APC over his remains to make sure. My inner darkness enjoyed the thundering hell out of it, because revenge is a good feeling. My point is, GTA didn't seem to have a lot of trouble selling. ;o)
Your post is too long to quote in it's entirety, but you raise alot of the same points I'm thinking on. The reason I brought up GTA is that it bothers me that gratuitous violence apparently is more okay than functional sexual depictions. This is, however, not something I should dwell on, as the only result will be frustration and cursing and very little constructive stuff.
On ratings though. I don't know, it sometimes seems like getting an adult kind of rating is almost a badge of honor. And the few instances I do find myself in a public lobby I encounter more little shits than sane(-ish) mature people. Ofcourse, I'm speaking from a Dutch point of view, where beyond the initial little wave of "what the hell are they playing now?!" people get informed and go "At least they're not killing cats and my wooden shoes need polishing now." Apart from some dumbasses it's pretty relaxed here, but I have no clue how it stands in other countries.
13 hours ago, Michael Aganier said:I'm surprised this post is 10 comments in and no one mentioned the Witcher series yet. The adult content in the Witcher fits perfectly the story and the lore. The entire series is a prime example of how to do great adult content in a story driven game.
All of a sudden I am too. As well as a little worried about why I didn't think of it myself.
There were one or two scenes in Witcher III where I thought they could have done without, but if I recall correctly there was always a choice on wether to go for it. Wasn't there?
12 hours ago, Bregma said:I always add unpixelate patches to The Sims because the not-telling there is overboard.
I hear that. But as for my story there's a three-step borderline of not telling/not censoring myself/ruining it with porn. Not Censoring Myself is undeniably the most important thing to me, I will not stand for that in my own product, but funk if it isn't the thinnest step to aim for.
13 hours ago, Bregma said:Make them say your name.
Well, that was pleasantly disturbing for someone like me, who thinks in pictures. ;o)
8 hours ago, Gian-Reto said:Well, I guess instead of trying too hard to get your adult content in SOMEWHERE, maybe just write the story and see if it feels right organically at some point in the story.
This, obviously.
Story always comes first. It comes before turning the bad guy's head into a canoo, it comes before nailing the girl to the bed. I know you nail someone on the bed, but I was going for graphic.
It doesn't matter what I'm going for really, because story always comes first. And if it turns out my story keeps on not allowing for adult content, as you already pointed out, then my lifelong dream of making a better porngame will shut the fuck up and sit in it's room until I say it can come out.
I feel I should point out that it is not actually my lifelong dream to make a better porngame although I do think it's possible to make one better than the state they're in now, 'coz... damn!
Anyway, thanks for all the replies.
I think it's useful to break concepts/language down to make things easier, like how a "scene" in language can be thought of as sort of container if that makes sense. A fight scene or a sex scene are the events leading up to and away from the event but the scene is not the actual event, it only contains it. You can have a fight scene or sex scene with or without fighting or sex actually shown. Usually in "tasteful" films they're only shown if it effected the plot in some direct way that couldn't be implied.
I agree with your thoughts about the double standard for violence and sex, though I think the reason the hypersensitive parent demographic are less worried about violence is that kids deal with violent feelings since they were babies. Sex on the other hand is not something parents want their kids thinking is even an option until they're old enough to support a family.
I think 'Society' is generally fine with "Sex Games", but not "Games with sex." The difference is all expectation. To be very crude for a moment, there's a distasteful old joke calling rape "surprise sex", that might be a good to keep in mind as a rule of thumb.
Society hates an awesome game surprising you by also being a sex game.
Society loves a sex game surprising you by also being an awesome game.
It's all about framing people's expectations, like how an iPhone is actually a pocket computer. As a pocket computer with a phone included it's actually not that great, we're comparing them to other computers. But a phone to have a computer included is freaking amazing, comparing them to other phones.
In short, remove any ambiguity about the game having sex in and you'll be fine.
Btw, if you're thinking making something like a visual novel like Doki Doki Literature Club then the "Ren'Py" community has a lot of examples of Indie dating games (some 18+) and a fairly sizable audience of people already into that sort of thing. Ren'Py is free, even for commercial use I'm pretty sure.
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6 hours ago, Old Soul said:there's a distasteful old joke calling rape "surprise sex", that might be a good to keep in mind as a rule of thumb.
That was actually very helpful. Unless you knew what you were getting into you don't wanna be Threepwooding your way through a puzzle and suddenly get surprise sex in your eye. Currently I've brought things down to just below Larry Laffer-levels, ie: There's gonna be sex, but you know you're not gonna see it. (As opposed to what I thought at the time: I'm gonna see s-... Oh, a censorship-bar?)
Yesterday night I worked on a scene which was supposed to have sex, way back when it was just an idea. I'm not gonna put an example because out of context it's just gonna make me look stupid (it might still, in context, but at least there'll be context), but suffice it to say that I went a more innocent direction and as the concept stands now it seems to work even better. There's still gonna be sex, but you won't be part of it and maybe even happy for the people having it, somewhere else.
6 hours ago, Old Soul said:Btw, if you're thinking making something like a visual novel like Doki Doki Literature Club then the "Ren'Py" community has a lot of examples of Indie dating games (some 18+) and a fairly sizable audience of people already into that sort of thing. Ren'Py is free, even for commercial use I'm pretty sure.
Don't know Doki Doki. I'm also not going for an adult game persé. Oldschool adventure game, more like.
It's actually one particular Ren'Py game that sparked the wet powderkeg I'm working on now though. I like to go and check out adult indies every now and then, for research, honest, to see if someone finally managed to marry games and porn. See how far you can take it on a shoestring budget and a testosterone fried brain. Not that far, I might add.
I found Summertime Saga and that showed some potential. For one, it didn't look anime, which really isn't my style. For... two, it had some semblance of a story. I found I had become interested in the story of some characters. Unfortunately it's still in alpha and each update kills the savegame from the last, so now I'm on another playthrough and it's starting to step into the same traps as we've been discussing here. I understand you need to keep your patreon backers happy with more poontang, but for now it's in the way of the story. I'll guess I'll check it again when it's done.
So, yeah. Ren'Py. I can't do that. Coding is like, the Ark of the Covenant and my brain would be that nazi guy.
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6 hours ago, Descent said:There is a game called Bathroom Gang Bang which touches that topic nicely.
Like an asshole I googled it and now I'm thinking there's a message that I'm not getting.
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